Cellist, guitarist, songwriter, tuning experimenter, avantpop artist, and more. Maddie Ashman is lately on the Instagram feed of many people with her songs that explore new possibilities within the microtonal music realm. She released her Otherworld EP on Bandcamp on March 28, and her new song “Toffee” is out on May 30. To hype you up, here is a conversation we did with Ashman in person on April 27, right before her Berlin concert at Kwia.
I want to start off with a basic introduction question. Can you give our readers some context of your background and how you developed your connection to music?
Maddie Ashman: Well, I started the guitar when I was 7 and I already loved music a lot. I used to write songs on the recorder, and I would sing as well. I started playing the guitar because my mum played it a little bit. I really enjoyed it. I started writing little songs and then when I was 9 at school, someone came in and played the cello, and I said “I want to play that.” My parents were supportive, so I had lessons in cello. I thought, “Yeah, I want to be a musician.” So that was decided there. When I was 11, I started playing piano, then bass guitar. I played in lots of orchestras and local music events. When I was a little older, I played electric guitar. I got really into rock music and started buying music. I played in a band at one point. Also wanted to be in a metal band. I tried to learn to scream, but I lost my voice, and didn’t try again. (laughs) I was playing classical music and metal music when I was a teenager. And then when I moved to London, I really enjoyed playing classical guitar more because I never got to play it before, you know, not really. It’s such a lonely instrument. I started playing cello in bands. I was playing cello like the electric guitar, and the guitar like the cello. I did lots of touring with pop musicians, and session work. Then a couple of years ago, I got really into microtonal research and decided this is what I’m really passionate about.
How did you first encounter microtonal music?
I was in a rehearsal one day. My part was only the harmonics on the cello. I realised that the harmonics didn’t match the piano, and something just clicked in my brain. I was like, “Whoa, why?” I just went down a big rabbit hole reading about equal temperament and tuning. I was listening to a lot of Michael Harrison, and I came across Tolgahan Çoğulu’s guitar music. I bought his book a few years ago. He got in touch with me a year later about my cello, having no idea that I was really into microtonal music. I just found the research really fascinating and it really satisfied my brain, because I’ve got perfect pitch, and it made me listen and experience music differently. I would think about the quality of the music, how the intervals feel, the colour and the resonance. I wouldn’t just think about notes.
How did you go through that ‘research’ aspect? Did you, for instance, write down these unusual harmonic ideas? Do you have notes on how things can be different or how to arrange them? How do you approach that whole thing of exploring?
I often think about music as tuning lattices and harmonic space, similar to what La Monte Young and Michael Harrison have done. I often think about different relationships that I want to explore, whether it’s through the 5th harmonic or the 7th harmonic, and create a sort of landscape that I want to explore. From there it’s really all about sound, and I just play and play and improvise on how I’m writing in different ways, on the computer, on instruments. I just improvise, improvise, improvise, select bits that I really like, and evolve them. It’s a very organic process, and I don’t really write things down. I use voice notes. Though sometimes if I’m writing for other musicians, then I write it down and I face that problem, but I try to always just make it as simple as possible because if it gets complicated, it feels inaccessible. It’s not really meant to be complicated. It’s meant to be natural.
The voice note part seems like a cool idea. I mostly record voices just to sample later, but it could just provide an instant documentation of ideas as well.
I love it because you really capture the emotion or the vibe. Sometimes you capture it and then try and do it again and it won’t be the same. I have to really think about what made that moment work. It’s not always just about the notes. It can be about the emotion or the interaction between the voice and the instrument.
You also treat your voice as an instrument. That feels like it should be a tough thing to handle.
It can be hard but I feel like when you lock in, you lock in. I always try to make it playful and fun, and I sound absolutely crazy. I’m trying it, and I think I just do it enough that it becomes quite natural or feels natural, but there is a lot of precision. It’s just that I’ve repeated it and tested it. I like it. I really enjoy playing my voice.
Can you elaborate on the theme of identity and womanhood on the Otherworld EP?
I collaborated with Jessa Brown. She’s an amazing poet and a good friend. I’ve worked with her before on some music that’s unreleased, but coming soon.
Cool.
I spoke to her because we’d written another piece before which was in Gaelic, and this time we wanted to do something with Welsh because I wrote the piece originally for my sister to sing with a guitarist, which they performed themselves. When they perform it, it becomes a much more operatic world. It’s completely different. We wrote it in Welsh as they were interested in it. The story is amazing, because it is Jessa’s story, but also so many of the themes about identity and womanhood and connections to the past really resonate with me as well. I think that a lot of aspects of the tuning research kind of reflect on it. The interaction of the instruments as well could reflect on ancestry. So it was a really nice collaboration.
I could say there is a really pastoral feeling to this record as well-
Yeah!
How often do you get inspired by being in nature while writing? Does that ever happen?
I find that when I’m walking in nature, ideas often become clear to me. So I think I am inspired by nature, but I also feel like I’m not a super external person. I’m very internal. (laughs) I was actually talking to someone earlier about this. They were saying they’re really inspired by what’s around them, and that I’m really inspired by what’s going on inside my head.
How is your relationship with technological developments and possibilities within music production?
I think I’m inspired by technology, but I also think because technology evolves so fast and it feels like anything is possible, I really like to combine it with something that is organic and natural. So something about singing and just playing the guitar is really exciting. But then equally, I’ve written loads of unreleased music which is all moving through pitch space, in which there is a lot of coding, and a lot of technology that I rely on that is incredible. Though I’m more interested in how I can apply that as a human. I want to perform with that technology rather than only involving it.
Technology is confusing, because there’s often things which are inaccessible. A piece of equipment costs thousands. I think there’s amazing companies. There’s the Lumatone, they make this instrument which is amazing for microtonal music. I would love to have it because the technology is great, but it also costs a lot of money. I’m very interested in how we can explore music without that technology.
I want to talk about the social media aspect of modern music making. Like many people, I discovered your music through social media. When I saw your performance Reels of “Dark” that went viral I thought, “Wow, this is probably a new genre.” Then again, I also thought about how quickly we consume -and sometimes subsequently forget- every piece of art or media we encounter in this post-TikTok age. Does the unpredictable nature of modern media consumption concern you?
(takes a moment to think) I think it’s important for everyone to find their own relationship with social media. I think it can be really powerful. Yeah, it is scary that people can come and go so fast, but I think you can make of it what you want to make of it. So I think as long as we remain in the real world and we connect with real people and find ways with music as well to make music that is human, it should be fine. Like “Dark” you mentioned. It’s so gestural and the emotions in it are so human. There is precision, but it doesn’t feel ordered. It’s… expressive, maybe? As long as we stay connected with that, I think it will be okay.
Yeah. I also want to point out that I don’t want to depict social media in a purely negative way. There are cool and useful aspects of it. It made me discover your music, after all, and many others.
Yeah. I agree.
Do you also use social media to discover new artists?
Actually it’s really funny, but on Instagram at least, I don’t really watch Reels. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever watched Reels.
And that’s totally valid.
But it’s quite funny, because it’s actually been such a huge resource for me. I do have TikTok and I’ll watch videos on TikTok, but I rarely watch music. I do feel like I’m very connected to music anyway through either reading or listening, talking to other musicians, going to concerts. That’s just how I find myself consuming music. I feel really excited that people have watched my videos and actually got on board, because there’s always a thought that you should change your social media to really appeal to people, or to get their attention to do it for them, for the audience. I feel really grateful that I’m able to just share my music.
I know you did soundtracks before. Do you have a dream director to work with some day?
Oh my god. (laughs) I think a lot of my answers are influenced by the composers themselves rather than the director they composed for, do you know what I mean? I love the Jonny Greenwood soundtrack for… What was it?
There Will Be Blood?
Yeah. There’s also an amazing film called Madeline’s Madeline. Its sound is just amazing. When I watch films, I’m so overwhelmed with the music and the sound design. There are many directors that I really love that allow for freedom to soundtrack artists. Everyone says that I should do anime. And horror. But I don’t know about that.
Do you think they say that because they-
They think my music’s scary.
I see.
I could say Yorgos Lanthimos. That’s my number one. He’s already got great collaborators, though. Also Paul Thomas Anderson. I would love to work with Molly Manning Walker. At the moment, I’m working a lot with Clemente Lohr. He’s going to make a feature soon and I feel really excited. I just scored his last short film.
Do you have an active dream life? Do you think your dreams penetrate your songwriting to a degree?
I wish, but sadly I feel like my dreams only play to my anxiety. (both laugh)
Does your anxiety shape your songwriting then?
I have abstract thoughts in the daytime and in my bedroom, you know, nowhere particularly exciting. I can find inspiration and think of fun things, but in my dreams only bad things seem to be happening. I remember them because I feel embarrassed, because I see them when I’m nervous about something. So it’s very unromantic.
When you check your streaming platform’s history, what are the last three things you listened to?
(laughs) “Daily Vocal Workout For An Awesome Singing Voice” from Jacobs Vocal Academy. That’s a practice that I do often. Then there is “Besties” by Black Country, New Road. Also “Broken Biscuits” by English Teacher.
Do we have a favorite album from 2025 so far? The Black Country, New Road album was pretty cool.
Quite cool, yeah. I’ve been enjoying Quickly, Quickly’s I Heard That Noise a lot. Lucrecia Dalt’s cosa rara EP was pretty cool too.
Are there instruments or tools in music making that you haven’t really explored yet, but would love to later on?
I feel like there is a lot to discover in technology that you can view as an instrument. Aside from that, I’d like to explore piano more. And also saxophone. I bought one, but didn’t really have that much time to explore it. I would love to experiment on things like that.
Let’s imagine we’re at a Musicians Theme Park 100 years from now, where every artist or band featured has their own memorial stone with a certain lyric by them written on it. Which one of your lyrics would you like to see written on your stone?
My favorite lyrics are the ones that are most personal to me. I can choose one from a song that’s not released: “I’m so impressed by these tears that are mine / Overwhelming, God, I’ve never felt so alive.”
You can check out Maddie Ashman’s Bandcamp profile here.
Toffee, out May 30, is Maddie’s debut DSP single, which marks her groundbreaking, unique voice ahead of her upcoming debut album. The song is in alt pop/rock genre, and explores what it’s like to feel and embrace emotions after a long time of suppressing them.
